Thursday, March 12, 2009

Pride Logo -- Take 2

Hm. My post on the 2009 Cincy Pride logo is the most popular ever, and the most commented on. Seriously. Organize a 700-person protest, a lot of silence... about something as silly and flippant as a logo, and everyone starts chatting. Meh. It happens.

I am not one to back down from criticism where criticism is due, but I'll say this: in a weird way, I like the theme. I'm shocked that I had the revulsion I originally did, or that so many people continue to. It's campy as hell, and I think the shirts will sell out because it is such a joke. Was it approached that way? Hell no. It was presented in all seriousness and, when we did bring it up, those of us critics were attacked for not being involved. Sell it as something fun.

If it's camp, it's absolutely fabulous, and I'll be the first to buy a t-shirt.

It plays off so many brilliant ideas and jokes and sillinesses that make up the Cincinnati gay community that I can barely contain myself. It plays off the bestiality jokes; it plays off our history as the pork capital (which is a joke in and of itself); it plays off the sexual innuendos of "pig sex;" all the while tying everything into the innumerable pigs dotted around the city... while making fun of it and making it our own. As camp, it's absolute brilliance.

I doubt that's what it was intended as, but, in my era of playing nice(-r), I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also think the organizations and participants of the Pride Party should take up the theme and make it a good ol'fashion ho-down. I like cowboy hats and overalls, especially on men. I would love, love, love to see it played up and see what, say, Adonis comes up with (guess: overalls and muscle boys and twinks).... or GLSEN (my guess: rural schoolhouse?). I think this is Shooters' year to blow us all away. Or the Serpent :-).

That said...

It's not a great logo, for one purpose: it will turn out blob-like in a copy machine. The cost of printing that is going to be egregious. I mean, it's a really nice image and it plays into the whole theme really well... but logos need to be simple, easy to scratch out, easy to remember, easy to copy, easy for you to doodle somewhere. The incarnation is more of a banner.

I mean, I would like it if it were part of a general exhibit of the theme itself, but I'm not too hot on it as a logo.

That said...

I have news for people who criticize the critics: just because they are being critical does not mean they are wrong, and just because they aren't doing what you ask them to do everyday mean that they have no rights to talk.

Guess what? 99% of the people who benefit from and/or involve themselves in your events/etc. will not be there to plan or put it together. In the end, of the 7,000+ people that will attend Pride, less than 100 of them will say they had anything to do with Pride in the first place except to turn out, hang with friends, and get stupid drunk. And it's not us bloggers you're going to have to answer to...'s them.

Consider us the more vocal version of the masses. Not really. But wouldn't you rather here it from us so that you, whom you do hear from rather than lash out at random 20-something twink boys at the parade the day of? We're vetting you. Prove to us that it's worth it. Don't lash out and attack us for not being involved.

Guess what? Blogging is involvement.

I don't hear you criticizing any other person in the city for not being involved. If you'd like, we can start naming people with absolutely nothing to their name in terms of accomplishment other than being the treasurer of so-and-so organization (that was not directed at any in particular, I promise, I was just making a point). We are doing what we do best, us critics.

We're being critical. And, in the end, that could be good for you.

That said...

I think we have been unfairly critical, including myself, of the process at times. Pride is a big event and there aren't nearly enough people involved. And they are doing the best they can with what they have, which isn't much (money, support, time, etc.) -- but that's a perennial problem for everyone. In the end, we all get drunk and have a good time and life goes on as normal.

They went out on a limb. It could have been awful and boring like "Unity through Community." I'm glad they are trying something new and different. Huzzah on them. I hope they try something new again next year.

That said...

I always hope for more than I get at Pride. I've been going for years and I have yet to say I had this amazing time that blew me away. I find myself wandering the circle over and over again, hugging everyone I know, and then getting a beer and thinking, "Well, now what?"

That said...

None of this really matters. There are bigger things to fight about, and fights to pick with bigger people with more power and importance than the Pride Planning Committee. In the end, it's nothing, and it will continue on ad infinitum until someone with a lot of vision, time, and connections takes over. As it always was.

But, in a time period where we're seeing a renewed sense of urgency, activism, and desire to change, don't we have better things to deal with than the freakin' Pride theme?

That said...

To both sides: the bits on my Facebook are excellent that should be brought up. From darling Penny Tration: keep 'em talking. And from Miss Chanak (via John Zeh): All press is good press so long as they spell your name right.

Aren't we giving Pride a lot of coverage, right now? And aren't we involving the community in a necessary discussion about the direction of Pride?

I'm just saying. Controversy can be good, too.

That said...

Oh. I'm done. I hope I've offended everyone. It was totally my purpose this morning.

Oh, and in a bit of glorious irony, I became a fan of the Gay & Lesbian Community Center on Facebook. Seriously.


Anonymous said...

Well considered! I never suggested that folks were not free to criticize or express their opinions -- it is a free country. By the same token, the critics are not immune from criticism either. This whole issue boils down to process and procedure. Decisions have to be made in an orderly way, rolled out, then on to other things. There is SO much to be done. Imagine if they scrapped the logo and theme -- so they come up with another one, float it out there, and wait to take the temperature in the blogsphere? It just does not work that way -- they would have a theme/logo a week before Pride. Frankly, I don't love the theme/logo, but I support it 110% -- and like Barry, I am trying my best to put a positive spin on it and make it work. Allow it to grow on you! And no, I am not with the Pride Committee -- just trying to lend a voice of appreciation and support in a negative world. I do appreciate the open-minded, concilliatory approach Barry struck here.

Anonymous said...

I think Barry was being very tounge in cheek.

And I loved his post!

"There is SO much to be done. Imagine if they scrapped the logo and theme -- so they come up with another one, float it out there, and wait to take the temperature in the blogsphere?"

We're not saying float it around in the blogshere. But we are, well at least I am is that they should be more responsible and "think" about what message they are putting out there. I herard the whole story behind how "Squealin" came about. And frankly thats not the way or the reason to pick a theme.

And as I said before I am SURE that the posts the past few days are not the first complaints they have heard.

The easiest thing right now and most diplomatic would be [if they can't trash it] is to admend, make it a sub logan or try to change it to something that works:

"Learning From the Past and Moving to the Future" - Cininatti/Porkpopolis Sqealin with Pride 2009"

Something like that. That way everyone would be happy.

Also many Pride committes gather ideas for themes from the community. Not just throw a few out internally and pick.

But right now I can't stand behind it 110 percent just for the fact that they won't even own up to the fact that as it stands it's a PR Nightmare, are unwilling to admend or change it and have basically been saying we have no right to critique and call them on it.

As it stands its such a POOR CHOICE. And frankly its very embaressing.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that responding to criticism, or returning criticism, is interpreted as demanding to be immune from criticism? You can criticize, but if I/they respond (with something other than agreeing to do as you say), then I/they are saying you have no right to criticize? Couldn't it just as easily be said that you are the one wishing to be immune? Either (a) shut up and say nothing, or (b) do as I say -- else you are trying to silence me. I don't get this. And again, I am NOT with the Pride Committee, so if you do not like my attitude, don't blame it on them. And maybe I am tone deaf, but I thought Barry was being sincere... Bottom line is, reasonable minds can differ, and a "I'm right, you're wrong, I'm taking my marbles and going home" approach is not conducive to building consensus and a spirit of community. There are certain prerogatives to being involved in the decisionmaking process and sometimes we just get outvoted - and have to live with it. Not everyone on the Commitee agreed with the theme, but they aren't stomping off. So let's be mature about it, and as Tim Gunn would say "make it work!"

Anonymous said...

Well as Tim rightly knows. "You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" and you Mr. Anonymous are just as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

I am going to stop cluttering Barry's Board now. LOL

I have my own Pride Theme Post ay now.


Jere Keys said...

"All press is good press so long as they spell your name right"

If I could rid the world of one stupid cliche, this would be the one.

Ask Howard "Scream Queen" Dean if all press is good press. Ask Rev. Jeremiah "God damn America" Wright if all press is good press. Ask the "we secretly bankrolled Prop 8 and hoped no one would find out" Mormons if all press is good press.

Sometimes, bad press is just bad press, and a growing voice of critics just continues to grow.

But you're right about the fact that there are bigger battles and issues to deal with. Like the Pride Committee's lack of an online strategy for marketing or promotion (something I questioned in the December meeting), or the systemic problem of a city with only 52% of the population listed as white (on the 2000 census) having hardly any POC involved in planning an event for everyone.

Sr. Lustee Raw'ket said...

Barry: Darling, thanks for finally taking the proper consideration of the theme. It was meant to be all fun. I'm sure I'll look like a trashy redneck hooker on pride, but at least i'll be there, and I'll have fun.

There should be a hog call, dress your pig, pig bingo (don't ask), and so many other things. Growing up in the country this is what we did, especially when your main "crop" was the swine. Sadly, it still is.

I think that the queens that are bitter about the theme need to do two things. Get off their bum and do something positive for someone else. The other thing is hang around someplace to get the pollops knocked off their colon.

I've lived under a bridge due to someone's intolerance. I've physically and emotionally suffered the bruises. I've had to plan funerals for people who have committed suicide due to others intolerance. I've even had my father take his life due to his intolerance of things in his life. It's time to show the community that we care and that we aren't greedy pigs. We are friendly pigs, we like to sniff in other pig pens, and best of all, we like to have fun without all of the pretentious snot that gets tossed around.

My God bless the pig. It's brought dinner to my table and a house over the table. Sometimes it's even brought entertainment by chasing it around the pen.

Anonymous said...


"I think that the queens that are bitter about the theme need to do two things. Get off their bum and do something positive for someone else. The other thing is hang around someplace to get the pollops knocked off their colon."

personally I think you lived under a bridge waiting for the billygoats.

Sr. Lustee Raw'ket said...

Wolfie--Nope. I raised them and sold them for meat. And it's a boer goat. Billy goats are just funky.

Barry Floore said...

Two bits:

1) No, you don't have to float it out to the bloggers. You still get to stand behind it, which is OK. But take it for what it is: criticism. You now know how some people may view it. Accept it, learn from it, see if our opinions actually matter, and move on.

2) You can, in fact, critique the critics. However, you can't get us on "not participating." Feel free to challenge opinions. Please. Feel free to be critical of us. I'm just saying, don't get on a high horse and say, "Well, you don't participate, therefore you don't get to be critical."

I'm over this topic. Let's move on. Let's do something about Butler County... or Cincinnati (if you are so inclined). :-)

Anonymous said...

Barry is right.

All has been said on the matter. Either take our opinions or ignore them its all on Cincy Pride now.

Time to move on.

I AM serious btw about a Pride 2010 for a NoKY/Greater Cinci pride in 2010 to most probably be held in Covington. So I am stepping up. If anyone has any questions, ideas, or wants to be on the Board or HELP let me know. I promise this won;t be a you have to be in there in BODY ONLY for EVERY MEETING sort of thing to have a say. Being there in SPIRIT or via the net is just as good also.

Anonymous said...

I agree that constructive criticism is good to keep a project on course. Crticize all you want, but let's have some perspective here...

Those who seem to be the loudest and most crtitcal of Pride and the theme are the very people who were on the committee early on and then just QUIT. No warning. No explanation. You know who you are. No one has called your pathetic a**es for doing so. You had the chance to change the venue. To influence decisions. You had the chance to change the theme when everyone squirmed when it squealed. But you did NOTHING and then chose to walk out.

Things are too far along now Bucko to change it. Here's to the people who are picking up and trying to make something out of the former Pride chair's mess. Cheers! Or should I say OINK.

For the drag queen who doesn't want to drag her big lazy butt out of bed early one Sunday morning of the year - I pity you. Maybe incentive would be to include a stop at Golden Corral. Try sacrificing some time for the good of the community.

Was that harsh? I hope so.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Barry

I have held back as long as I can. When you have pride Committe people posting as "Anonymous" and being just general rude bitches thats when I have to say something.

So Anon

You know you are just too much and way too harsh. If you are indicitive of the type of person who is on The Pride committe I can see why people DON'T want to get involved. Sounds like a pretty bitchy group to me. LOADS OF FUN I AM SURE!

Oh and heres a bit of advice I hope you guys might apply to next year.

Many Pride Groups actually have WORKING WEBSITES and put a group of themes up for members of the community to vote on. Because it is after all a COMMUNITY EVENT And they also wait a bit before picking a theme like until about late January or February to pick theme to actually see whats going on in the gay community so the theme isn't irrelevant, boring or shitty.

Also things can only be too far along now Bucko to change it. If you idiotically started ourdering merchandise early. There are still ways to get out it gracefully. And "when everyone squirmed when it squealed." if people did this then that should have been a clear sign that it was going to be a mess.

YOUR attitude is no good for the community. You come off asd a stubborn bitter old queen and make further the point that this year should be the last year for Committe members involved and Pride should certainly move out of the Center.

Yeah I said that. And I mean it.


PS. Next time have the balls to use a name bitch.

(Barry I apologize in advance but that that reply was just waaaay too much.)

Tony Cody said...

The "lazy drag queen" would LOVE a buffet before Pride!! (wink)

Anonymous said...

Which proves my point that anyone with an opinion, an a**hole and a computer can blog Wolfie boy.

You can spew as much venom as you wish but then you get your pink, fluffy panties in a wad when you get called on it.

I'm not discounting anything that the drag queen does for the community. But I don't see anyone tearing her a new one because there's disagreement about hurting an audience member's feelings, having a raucously dirty mouth at times or other character flaws. You know why? Because it's not productive - it's divisive and counter-productive.

Give it up...your lack of participation at Pride won't be missed. And you're WRONG, I'm not on the committee - I'm just tired of hearing the whining from the likes of you - bitch.

And dear - no hard feelings - I'll take you to a buffet whenever you want. (wink)

Yep - I'm posting as anonymous again. Live with it!


Jere Keys said...

I have seen the light. Here I thought our community was capable of disagreement and critique, but Anon has shown me the way. From here on out, I will never disagree with anything that a group of volunteers with no special training or qualifications says because that would be "divisive." Can you point me to the kool aid?

Look, the pride logo and theme are shit, and instead of defending it in any worthwhile way, you are engaging in ad hominen attacks. Of all the people contributing reasoned, intelligent and thoughtful opinions, you're the one acting like a complete asshole.

Anonymous said...

This has DELIVERANCE written all over it...


Did anyone else miss this??

Anonymous said...

I'm posting anonymously in support of anonymous posting. So there.

Barry, these comment threads have totally redeemed you in my book. You've got these pigs talking -- that counts for a lot.

Some of the pig dogs on here (woof! woof!) need to relax. No one's telling you not to express your opinions. You get to do that! But others get to disagree. Go to Pride, don't go to Pride, that's your choice. Be glad you have one! I think Pride's about Freedom, about getting to make that choice (sorry Penny, don't give a shit about the closet cases.)

FYI-- Like the other Anon, I'm not on the Pride Committee. But it's a small town and I know her and I know most of them and some of you. So be nice!


p.s.: Barry, who owns that web site that showed up on the link to last year's Pride web site? Is it right for her to be stealing web traffic that's looking for Pride info?
p.p.s.: Some of the commenters have been making thinly veiled threats to take away what they perceive to be the Center's Pride authority or franchise or something. Here's a dirty little secret: no one really WANTS to organize this Pride crap. It's a huge pain in the ass. It's expensive as hell. Like Penny says, it's it's a fairly miserable way to spend a sultry Sunday afternoon. So be careful what you wish for! I'm just sayin'!
Woof! Woof! And Oink too to you Mother, if you're still reading.
(Make a note of this.)(Plz.)

Anonymous said...

Long live the Pride Pig!!!

Sr. Lustee Raw'ket said...

Praise the pig! *oink*

--Hamptalicious :)

Print Banners said...

First Off, Nice Logo, Very Nicely Done! I agree that it is a free country and that there is responsibility to be taken for every act of independence and freedom.